Feedback Every fight win becomes a grind to raid the base

pashen

Member
One of the most boring aspects of game is raiding - it takes hours to finish base raiding without defenders. And if there are defenders, they have all the time in the world to move their stuff out, or despawn it.

Therefore a lot of clan vs clan wins have low gains (risk/reward)

The boring aspects:

* Sawing takes long time
* Burning walls take long time
* Finding angles inside the base to use saw, or move in smaller walkers to use ballista takes long time

At Ashenfell we call it PvB (Player vs Base)

How to fix? I have no solution. Maybe remove saw dmg to boxes and make some arrows to destroy boxes faster?
 

Xaero15

Member
Well, sawing boxes should not be a thing, I agree with that. There is already ammo to destroy boxes, like normal bolts... and they are not expensive at all. And bases are made to gain time in the end to be able to defend your stuff.
 

Jeon

Active member
It is good this way imho, two days ago my clan was riding a mega base owned by ashenfell, after like four hours of pvb (nice word) with small or no resistance from them (server was full all evening, I couldn't even enter, had to watch some friend stream) they were simply tired and went back home with their bags full. Between mega clans, who cares of what happens; but I guess this helps smaller clans to protect their stuff a little bit more, IF they build correctly. Also, for my experience, rarely a raid requires more than 30-60 mins if many players have what is required (firebolts, hell-fire, regular bolts and saw blades for chests). Sawblade has been nerfed since now the cost to build it is somewhat expansive (35 nomad cloth... Iron ores...) respect to the 2000 wood and 280 woodshafts we had before. Considering how long people farm for their bases, and how quickly and inexpensively people can raid them, asking even for the process to require less time is a bit greedy imho, leave the poor pve people alone guys.
 

pashen

Member
Well, sawing boxes should not be a thing, I agree with that. There is already ammo to destroy boxes, like normal bolts... and they are not expensive at all. And bases are made to gain time in the end to be able to defend your stuff.
The problem I see is that good fights take good time. Lets say 2-3 hours considering FOBs, ships and etc.Than the base raid is 3-4 hours.

It is extremely boring. I know it’s good too in that sense to defend people. But i still advocate to look for balance.

Having saws for example Make people use them instead of anything else more efficient, but more expensive.
 

pashen

Member
It is good this way imho, two days ago my clan was riding a mega base owned by ashenfell, after like four hours of pvb (nice word) with small or no resistance from them (server was full all evening, I couldn't even enter, had to watch some friend stream) they were simply tired and went back home with their bags full. Between mega clans, who cares of what happens; but I guess this helps smaller clans to protect their stuff a little bit more, IF they build correctly. Also, for my experience, rarely a raid requires more than 30-60 mins if many players have what is required (firebolts, hell-fire, regular bolts and saw blades for chests). Sawblade has been nerfed since now the cost to build it is somewhat expansive (35 nomad cloth... Iron ores...) respect to the 2000 wood and 280 woodshafts we had before. Considering how long people farm for their bases, and how quickly and inexpensively people can raid them, asking even for the process to require less time is a bit greedy imho, leave the poor pve people alone guys.
Taking politics aside, I am at Ashenfell. We did same for two weeks with Saints and stopped doing it. Cap server, PvB for 4 hours. If anyone is online, it is extremely easy to move stuff around.

what you got from Ashenfell was most likely from ships and their simple designed bases. It’s quite fine to raid these. Still quite boring to saw boxes though.

But I doubt it was fun to stay at our warehouse raiding it. It is designed to be painful.

In my other suggestion thread I proposed to raise reserved slots on maps to have proper fights. Balancing the PvB would help to get rewards after these fights.

Imagine you attacking Ashenfell having a great 2–3 hours fight and 1-2 hours PvB to get good loot.

If we talk about solos - there are certain base designs to still make it painfull even if it was faster. But its another topic
 

NastyMix

New member
I disagree with you Pashen. If you want loot you should work for it. Protect the area and don't let people get away with loot. It doesn't help to despawn anything as loot bags stays there for very long time. You don't have to be a PVE player to have spent allot of time and resources to build and sett up your base and walkers. It takes days, so in my opinion it is fare that you guys spend a couple of hours to get the loot and destroy the chests. We already have it unbalanced how fast and cheap you can destroy walkers. Some rupu gel and in 10 minutes you can destroy days of farming quality materials and modules. Not speaking of setting a walker up. If you want faster looting of bases you should spend more arrows to crack it open, don't use the saw as it is slow as fuck and use some propper ammo, but it would be more expensive and the loot inside might be not worth it, right? But at least you guys will save the time and time is always expensive ;)
 

pashen

Member
I disagree with you Pashen. If you want loot you should work for it. Protect the area and don't let people get away with loot. It doesn't help to despawn anything as loot bags stays there for very long time. You don't have to be a PVE player to have spent allot of time and resources to build and sett up your base and walkers. It takes days, so in my opinion it is fare that you guys spend a couple of hours to get the loot and destroy the chests. We already have it unbalanced how fast and cheap you can destroy walkers. Some rupu gel and in 10 minutes you can destroy days of farming quality materials and modules. Not speaking of setting a walker up. If you want faster looting of bases you should spend more arrows to crack it open, don't use the saw as it is slow as fuck and use some propper ammo, but it would be more expensive and the loot inside might be not worth it, right? But at least you guys will save the time and time is always expensive ;)
Unfortunately it is not exactly that as you say. I am talking about one specific part of the game that needs fix i have trouble to find yet. I am not talking about 1-2 walls raid. I talk about this scale of war:

In these scenarios it is extremely easy to despawn as base braking solely lasts around 3 hours when 50+ players do an extremely boring activity for nothing.
you don’t just use arrows. You need to move in small walkers inside the base to shoot, or foundation wipe, or saw. You don’t shoot many ballistas in base, usually its the process of sawing, moving walkers in, shooting. All together.

My line of thought here is that maybe instead of having PvB, think about raising grind for some kind of tool that makes it faster once you won the fight.

However, I think fighting should be balanced more towards the defenders, so that the fights become competitive (i have made more suggestions in other threads to improve these systems)


At the same time I agree it shouldn’t be easy to raid solos. But remember, solos should also learn not to use 1-2 walls defenses for their loot. Bushman youtuber has some good base designs to mitigate risks. Again, if the resources to make tools are expensive, than it doesn’t make sense to raid solos even if its a bit faster.

I say - raiding is boring and anticlimactic, fix it - there is no reward in it for a winner. More fighting, less raiding

Talking about saw as such - leaders will choose saws as a tool boring the members. Same as leaders choose capping servers, or making people sit in queues. The question is what are devs design decisions to facilitate other behavior and improve the gameplay?
 
We need a iron crowbar to open boxes by only breaking the lock. I think that would help a lot with decreasing raid times. When the battle is already won it should not take 2 hours to then raid a base! It is also really strange to me that you need to drive a firefly with a repeater in to the base to open boxes.

I am actually ok with it taking time to get trough the wall of the base it self but when the wall of the base falls down. Then it should not take and aditionall hour to get in to all the boxes, if you have the right equipment ofc.

Despawning stuff should also be looked at. My suggestion would be to have the bags stay longer if there is more loot in them and change it looks to a chest if there is a lot of loot in it. I believe the loot bag collects stuff around it right? In general the loot bag system they have now is really good but just needs to be expanded a little.
 
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Jeon

Active member
Time is the only defense of small groups. You want your enemy to reconsider going through with the raid because it would take too much time. If raiding was quicker, many more players would lose 100% of their progress and quit the game. Don't be greedy guys. Raiding full loot is fine, zeroing walkers is fine. It's inexpensive in terms of materials, at least make it time consuming. It's the only defense these noobs have.
 

pashen

Member
Time is the only defense of small groups. You want your enemy to reconsider going through with the raid because it would take too much time. If raiding was quicker, many more players would lose 100% of their progress and quit the game. Don't be greedy guys. Raiding full loot is fine, zeroing walkers is fine. It's inexpensive in terms of materials, at least make it time consuming. It's the only defense these noobs have.
it shouldn't be an incentive. An incentive should be cost vs potential reward.

It is a boring mechanics of the game as a fact. Time consuming boring mechanics that takes time of both sides.

It reminds me taming in Ark when I played it. There were maby reasons why it was legit to have so hard and long taming, but it was simply a boring mechanics. And the devs actually expanded on the ways of taming later to fix it.

As the person said above, it could be an iron crowbar that brakes fast or costs a lot. So it would be a tradeoff between iron and box loot for example. And maybe should take time to brake, so if you won - you can just do it fast with 30 people and crowbars, but if mid-fight, you wont have time to stand and brake because of opposition. This might work.
And in that case, I would not use crowbars for small bases because its most likely not worth it.
 

pashen

Member
And again, as I said - the walls should be time, not boxes. If you are solo - redesign base. It is standard now
 

Jeon

Active member
It's already inexpensive for big groups to completely obtain enemy's loot, if you want to do it faster just spend more rupu gel or bring more bolts... Or more sawblades! We already have all the means to make the process faster.
 

pashen

Member
It's already inexpensive for big groups to completely obtain enemy's loot, if you want to do it faster just spend more rupu gel or bring more bolts... Or more sawblades! We already have all the means to make the process faster.
count the time it takes
 

Seven Proxies

Active member
You have to also look at it from the perspective of the person who is getting raided.

They might've spent a lot of time building that base. Seems only fair that you should also have to spend some time to destroy it. They deserve a window of opportunity to call in clan mates to defend it.
 

ZtyX

Member
The inefficiency of raiding big bases is actually one of the few defensive tactics you have as a losing player/group. And you just want to make it easier.... you really are clueless.
 

Maskov

Active member
I agree on the pvp and looting but your idea will put a full stop to this game and only large clans will remain.
I don't want to explain myself but your idea will definitely kill the game but bear in mind we love raiding bases and that is what our clan and allies been doing on other clans from China.
If you disagree with me because you only think of yourself(self-centered) and your clan only and not establishing the situation of other players and clans. We want a fight that is hard fought and win, even we lose we still can fight another day and that is what the game currently is giving. Clay bases for protection against zergs and that base might be empty with zero loots(thats the best part) .
You are no different than those whiners that wants easy way to play this game.

Let me share with in 1 of our battles, enemy schmetterling zeroed, we start unpacking their base but they are able to cancel it within their clay base some 50-60 meters away. So we tried to make a hole in their claybase but ran out hellfires. We tried shooting sulphur and clouds bombs onto their base hopefully can kill the occupants inside. Enemy reinforcement came with 2 falco due to the delay, lost our walkers and we fought back. To cut the story short, after 3hours of delays we only managed to unpack their base. Imagining the frustration they keep cancelling the unpacking for 3hours. But to us, that is the fun part.
 

pashen

Member
You have to also look at it from the perspective of the person who is getting raided.

They might've spent a lot of time building that base. Seems only fair that you should also have to spend some time to destroy it. They deserve a window of opportunity to call in clan mates to defend it.
Absolutely, and I already discussed it in thread
 

pashen

Member
The inefficiency of raiding big bases is actually one of the few defensive tactics you have as a losing player/group. And you just want to make it easier.... you really are clueless.
I stop discussion with you. a) you are toxic and dont add arguments to discussion b) you don’t read what I write.


There is no suggestion in this thread. It is a feedback discussion about boring mechanics. It is hard to find a solution as there should be balance between defence vs raid.

I would aim searching for more defensive
PvP mechanics instead of boring PvB after the fight is done.
 

pashen

Member
I agree on the pvp and looting but your idea will put a full stop to this game and only large clans will remain.
I don't want to explain myself but your idea will definitely kill the game but bear in mind we love raiding bases and that is what our clan and allies been doing on other clans from China.
If you disagree with me because you only think of yourself(self-centered) and your clan only and not establishing the situation of other players and clans. We want a fight that is hard fought and win, even we lose we still can fight another day and that is what the game currently is giving. Clay bases for protection against zergs and that base might be empty with zero loots(thats the best part) .
You are no different than those whiners that wants easy way to play this game.

Let me share with in 1 of our battles, enemy schmetterling zeroed, we start unpacking their base but they are able to cancel it within their clay base some 50-60 meters away. So we tried to make a hole in their claybase but ran out hellfires. We tried shooting sulphur and clouds bombs onto their base hopefully can kill the occupants inside. Enemy reinforcement came with 2 falco due to the delay, lost our walkers and we fought back. To cut the story short, after 3hours of delays we only managed to unpack their base. Imagining the frustration they keep cancelling the unpacking for 3hours. But to us, that is the fun part.
a) look at the label of the topic. It is NOT suggestion, it is feedback on boring mechanics WHEN the fight is finished.

b) you clearly explained a fun PvP fight where you didn’t brake a single wall because of good opposition. This is what I want from game more

c) you compare me to whiners for no reason, so let us move towards being a bit more constructive.

I have a question to you. Have you ever raided a base that had almost no defenders left, had multiple layers with multiple walls each, 100s of ceramic boxes...? How did it go? How many hours? Did you enjoy it? Would you like to have these experiences more?

I tell you mine -catching of guard big clans several times, winning fights, destroying multiple walkers And after 1-2 hour fight staying 60 people for 3-4 hours more to open all chests, brake walls, build fireflies and etc.

My topic is specifically about this extremely boring experience. Are you the one enjoing it?
 

ZtyX

Member
Just stop posting your self centered zerg / pvp / griefing oriented ideas and go back to your 2 day drive.

The game is pretty much dead at this point and you don't address why or how it can be fixed in any of your ideas.

You just keep pushing for incremental changes that would be good for you.
 
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